Looks like Putin is going to declare war

[tacnet]

I wish Putin and Biden would just sit down off the cameras and hash out a deal so this fighting would stop. Forget how summits go with all show for the cameras, just the two of them with interpreters.

Sorry but i dont agree with that. You don't negotiate with a bully because he threatens to use nuclear weapons unless he gets what he wants

Remember we tried that approach with Hitler in Munich when we gave him Czechoslovakia so long as he promised that he wouldn't go after anything else .... and look what happened

If we don't stop Putin now then we will definitely have a world war on our hands next year

My concern is if he thinks he will lose face then he might shoot off the nukes

Which is exactly what he wants us to think

[TheButcher]

Sorry but i dont agree with that. You don't negotiate with a bully because he threatens to use nuclear weapons unless he gets what he wants

Remember we tried that approach with Hitler in Munich when we gave him Czechoslovakia so long as he promised that he wouldn't go after anything else .... and look what happened

If we don't stop Putin now then we will definitely have a world war on our hands next year

My concern is if he thinks he will lose face then he might shoot off the nukes

Which is exactly what he wants us to think

What if he isn’t bluffing

[tacnet]

My concern is if he thinks he will lose face then he might shoot off the nukes

Which is exactly what he wants us to think

What if he isn’t bluffing

Then that's terrorism and all the more reason for him to be stopped

What if ISIS got hold of a nuclear weapon and threatened to use it unless we gave in to their demands ?? Should we negotiate with them ??

Putin has publicly stated that he wants to rebuild the Soviet Union. So the question becomes how much should we give him to avoid war ? part of Ukraine ? the whole of Ukraine ? or what about Poland and the Baltic states ? Or even East Germany ?

History has taught us that we cannot give in to dictators who seek to expand their territory by force

[TheButcher]

Which is exactly what he wants us to think

What if he isn’t bluffing

Then that's terrorism and all the more reason for him to be stopped

What if ISIS got hold of a nuclear weapon and threatened to use it unless we gave in to their demands ?? Should we negotiate with them ??

Putin has publicly stated that he wants to rebuild the Soviet Union. So the question becomes how much should we give him to avoid war ? part of Ukraine ? the whole of Ukraine ? or what about Poland and the Baltic states ? Or even East Germany ?

History has taught us that we cannot give in to dictators who seek to expand their territory by force

I know what you mean all I am saying is you corner a guy with nukes the risk of one or two going up are much higher. How did we even get to this point where everyone is talking nuclear war. Even at the eight of the Cuban missile crisis back channel diplomacy got it defused. This is all a sign of bad diplomacy, leaders not doing things to de-escalate the situation and things are spiralling out of control.

I doubt Russia is going to fire of a nuke unless they feel about to lose face and the war, but that's my take.

[tacnet]

I know what you mean all I am saying is you corner a guy with nukes the risk of one or two going up are much higher. How did we even get to this point where everyone is talking nuclear war. Even at the eight of the Cuban missile crisis back channel diplomacy got it defused. This is all a sign of bad diplomacy, leaders not doing things to de-escalate the situation and things are spiralling out of control.

I doubt Russia is going to fire of a nuke unless they feel about to lose face and the war, but that's my take.

I totally get where your coming from. Nobody wants to see an all out nuclear war. I think the difference with Cuba was that there wasn't a war, it was simply a strategic placement of missiles and therefore a lot easier to defuse

In this instance,the war has already started. Putin has invaded and annexed a sovereign country and even with all the diplomacy in the world, no country can be expected to accept that

Lets be clear, only one side has threatened to use nuclear weapons here. Even if Putin did use them, i doubt that Nato would respond with nuclear. The western democracies simply wouldn't tolerate their governments using nuclear weapons, whatever the cause

As much as I hate to say it, yes this war will end with Putin loosing face. I can see no other outcome.

Whether or not he also looses power will depend on his people

[BrasSmonkey]

it's already been stated this is war. when they invaded and didn't leave this is war.

[24alex]

If Biden and Putin get to sit down at the sidelines of the G20 things might get talked about which can lead to a possible cease fire. Let's hope they get the chance to talk.

[tacnet]

If Biden and Putin get to sit down at the sidelines of the G20 things might get talked about which can lead to a possible cease fire. Let's hope they get the chance to talk.

Hate to say it but thats NEVER going to happen

Biden said it the other day, the minute we negotiate with Putin we are simply setting him up for his next military conquest (whilst at the same time showing China that they can have a go at Taiwan)

That's why we cant give Putin an off ramp here. As soon as we do, Putin will move on the rest of eastern Europe and China will likely invade Taiwan. Then we will be in a world war for sure

We have to show Putin and the rest of the world that the use of force against the west will NEVER succeed.

Putin started this war and he is going to have to find his own way out of it. And by the looks of things, he is going to have to do it quick as he's running out of weapons and Ukraine is getting stronger and stronger by the day

[TheButcher]

If Biden and Putin get to sit down at the sidelines of the G20 things might get talked about which can lead to a possible cease fire. Let's hope they get the chance to talk.

Hate to say it but thats NEVER going to happen

Biden said it the other day, the minute we negotiate with Putin we are simply setting him up for his next military conquest (whilst at the same time showing China that they can have a go at Taiwan)

That's why we cant give Putin an off ramp here. As soon as we do, Putin will move on the rest of eastern Europe and China will likely invade Taiwan. Then we will be in a world war for sure

We have to show Putin and the rest of the world that the use of force against the west will NEVER succeed.

Putin started this war and he is going to have to find his own way out of it. And by the looks of things, he is going to have to do it quick as he's running out of weapons and Ukraine is getting stronger and stronger by the day

I am not sure maybe they will have a chat at the G20 meeting.

I doubt China is waiting to see what happens with the Ukraine conflict to make a move.

I still say finding a peaceful settlement and off ramp for both parties is the best way out of this mess. Sure it's not what either side will end up with that they want but anything to stop the death of innocent people is better than what is happening now. I don't see Russia running out of weapons look at the past 3 days, they are using quite a few.


Peace

[tacnet]

Hate to say it but thats NEVER going to happen

Biden said it the other day, the minute we negotiate with Putin we are simply setting him up for his next military conquest (whilst at the same time showing China that they can have a go at Taiwan)

That's why we cant give Putin an off ramp here. As soon as we do, Putin will move on the rest of eastern Europe and China will likely invade Taiwan. Then we will be in a world war for sure

We have to show Putin and the rest of the world that the use of force against the west will NEVER succeed.

Putin started this war and he is going to have to find his own way out of it. And by the looks of things, he is going to have to do it quick as he's running out of weapons and Ukraine is getting stronger and stronger by the day

I am not sure maybe they will have a chat at the G20 meeting.

I doubt China is waiting to see what happens with the Ukraine conflict to make a move.

I still say finding a peaceful settlement and off ramp for both parties is the best way out of this mess. Sure it's not what either side will end up with that they want but anything to stop the death of innocent people is better than what is happening now. I don't see Russia running out of weapons look at the past 3 days, they are using quite a few.


Peace

Not sure what news you get but its all over the western media that Russia is running out of weapons. NY Times, Sky News, fortune.com etc

He's resorted to throwing long range missiles because thats all he's got left and around half of those are being shot down by Ukraine before they hit

[TheButcher]

Not sure what news you get but its all over the western media that Russia is running out of weapons. NY Times, Sky News, fortune.com etc

He's resorted to throwing long range missiles because thats all he's got left and around half of those are being shot down by Ukraine before they hit

Just going by what I see reported online for the past 3 days, the Russians seem to be hitting Ukraine all across the country with around 80-100 missiles each day. That doesn't seem to me like a country running out of missiles nor does it seem Ukraine is knocking them down.

[tacnet]

Not sure what news you get but its all over the western media that Russia is running out of weapons. NY Times, Sky News, fortune.com etc

He's resorted to throwing long range missiles because thats all he's got left and around half of those are being shot down by Ukraine before they hit

Just going by what I see reported online for the past 3 days, the Russians seem to be hitting Ukraine all across the country with around 80-100 missiles each day. That doesn't seem to me like a country running out of missiles nor does it seem Ukraine is knocking them down.

I'll have to disagree with you on that one as I see it completely the opposite

Putin's army is exhausted. They are rapidly loosing ground on the battlefield, ground which they only recently declared as being part of Russia. They are having to rely on conscripts and just last week, Putin sacked his army commander and replaced him

Ontop of that, no country is willing to supply him with weapons for fear of sanctions (hence why he is going to places like Iran and North Korea) whereas half the world is supplying Ukraine with everything they need. Just yesterday the US and Germany confirmed that they are to supply Ukraine with long range missile defence systems

Putin is in trouble. With the entire western world united against him and sanctions crippling his ability to supply his army, he's not going to be able to keep this up for long

[Dallastim]

I have a question all this money and military equipment we send there, are they paying us for it or is it a gift?

[tacnet]

I have a question all this money and military equipment we send there, are they paying us for it or is it a gift?

I dont know the financial agreements between NATO and Ukraine but I do know the cost of doing nothing will be astronomical

Some people seem to think that this is a simple border dispute between 2 countries. It is NOT, it is so much more than that. This is about the global world order and whether or not a dictatorship can invade a weaker democratic neighbour and and the world let him get away with it.

We have seen this before when Hitler had a "border dispute" with Czechoslovakia and we gave into him. If we dont stop Putin now, whats to stop him going after Poland, Finland, Hungary and the rest of Eastern Europe ??? Or China going after Taiwan ?

If you want to think of it purely in financial terms then think of this, if Putin succeeds in taking Ukraine then he will have total control over two thirds of the world's Oil, Gas and Wheat production. This is an un-elected leader who routinely murders his opponents and we would be giving him total control over the world's economy

Whatever it takes, Putin must be stopped

[TheButcher]

I think Musk did not take the comment by the Ukrainian ambassador to Germany too well.

"“Fuck off is my very diplomatic reply to you,” tweeted Andrij Melnyk, the Ukrainian ambassador to Germany. “The only outcome is that now no Ukrainian will EVER buy your f…ing Tesla crap. So good luck to you."


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... et-ukraine

Yesterday Musk aid he can not give Ukraine the starlink satellite system for free any more, that someone has to pay for it.