Finally some good news the US and Russia are secretly drafting a 28 point peace plan to end the Ukraine fiasco.
https://www.axios.com/2025/11/19/ukrain ... ia-witkoff
[NEWS] Ukraine Can’t Win the War
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Russ
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tacnet
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If you really want to know what's going on in Ukraine then I highly recommend the weekly Q&A sessions with Professor Micheal Clarke. This guy is an expert in global conflict, particularly when it comes to Ukraine & Russia. He's used by the BBC, Sky News and several other major news outlets
There's no spin, no politics. He simply tells it like it is
Here's this weeks podcast https://www.youtube.com/live/NuF6Wh3yRb ... 7LvyNjbv9Q
There's no spin, no politics. He simply tells it like it is
Here's this weeks podcast https://www.youtube.com/live/NuF6Wh3yRb ... 7LvyNjbv9Q
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tacnet
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Whilst I welcome any peace agreement, trying to draft one WITHOUT including two of the main players (ie Ukraine and Europe) is a non starterRuss wrote: ↑November 19th, 2025, 11:36 amFinally some good news the US and Russia are secretly drafting a 28 point peace plan to end the Ukraine fiasco.
https://www.axios.com/2025/11/19/ukrain ... ia-witkoff
And I say Europe because we are already at war with Russia. It's a hybrid war of cyber attacks, sabotage, miss-information, state sponsored murders etc. As an example, just the other month Russia launched a cyber attack which shut down Landrover-Jaguar for approx a week. That one attack alone meant a drop in the UK's GDP of nearly 1%. And even today it was announced that the Russian spy ship, the Yantar, had entered British waters. It's well known for attacking undersea cables and even used lasers to try and protect itself from British planes that were monitoring it.
Imagine if that kind of thing was happening in America ??? Do you think Trump would be so keen to make a peace deal then ???
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TheButcher
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tacnet wrote: ↑November 19th, 2025, 12:25 pmWhilst I welcome any peace agreement, trying to draft one WITHOUT including two of the main players (ie Ukraine and Europe) is a non starterRuss wrote: ↑November 19th, 2025, 11:36 amFinally some good news the US and Russia are secretly drafting a 28 point peace plan to end the Ukraine fiasco.
https://www.axios.com/2025/11/19/ukrain ... ia-witkoff
And I say Europe because we are already at war with Russia. It's a hybrid war of cyber attacks, sabotage, miss-information, state sponsored murders etc. As an example, just the other month Russia launched a cyber attack which shut down Landrover-Jaguar for approx a week. That one attack alone meant a drop in the UK's GDP of nearly 1%. And even today it was announced that the Russian spy ship, the Yantar, had entered British waters. It's well known for attacking undersea cables and even used lasers to try and protect itself from British planes that were monitoring it.
Imagine if that kind of thing was happening in America ??? Do you think Trump would be so keen to make a peace deal then ???
Let’s see what the proposal is it might not be acceptable to Russia and the victor dictates the terms of the capitulation not the loser so hang on.
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We have heard and seen so many peace negotiations in this war when the bullets stop flying I'll believe peace has been achieved.
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TheButcher
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From Axios the 28 point peace plan, if this gets done president Trump truly deserves the Nobel Peace Prize next year.
https://www.axios.com/2025/11/20/trump- ... nts-russia
"Worth noting: The 28 points below reflect the current U.S. plan as of Thursday, barring minor changes to the language as it has been amended. It includes annotations from Axios in italics for the purposes of clarity.
The full plan
1. Ukraine's sovereignty will be confirmed.
2. A comprehensive non-aggression agreement will be concluded between Russia, Ukraine and Europe. All ambiguities of the last 30 years will be considered settled.
3. It is expected that Russia will not invade neighboring countries and NATO will not expand further.
4. A dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the United States, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation in order to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development.
5. Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees.
A U.S. official told Axios this would be an explicit security guarantee for Ukraine from the U.S., the first time that has officially been on the table during these talks, though the proposal does not offer further details on what it entails.
6. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 personnel.
Note: Ukraine's army currently includes 800,000-850,000 personnel, and included around 250,000 prior to the war, according to a Ukrainian official.
7. Ukraine agrees to enshrine in its constitution that it will not join NATO, and NATO agrees to include in its statutes a provision that Ukraine will not be admitted in the future.
8. NATO agrees not to station troops in Ukraine.
Note: NATO countries including France and the U.K. have been working on separate proposals that would include small numbers of European troops on Ukrainian soil after the war. This plan appears to disregard that possibility.
9. European fighter jets will be stationed in Poland.
10. The U.S. guarantee:
The U.S. will receive compensation for the guarantee;
If Ukraine invades Russia, it will lose the guarantee;
If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a decisive coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be reinstated, recognition of the new territory and all other benefits of this deal will be revoked;
If Ukraine launches a missile at Moscow or St. Petersburg without cause, the security guarantee will be deemed invalid.
11. Ukraine is eligible for EU membership and will receive short-term preferential access to the European market while this issue is being considered.
12. A powerful global package of measures to rebuild Ukraine, including but not limited to:
The creation of a Ukraine Development Fund to invest in fast-growing industries, including technology, data centers, and artificial intelligence.
The United States will cooperate with Ukraine to jointly rebuild, develop, modernize, and operate Ukraine's gas infrastructure, including pipelines and storage facilities.
Joint efforts to rehabilitate war-affected areas for the restoration, reconstruction and modernization of cities and residential areas.
Infrastructure development.
Extraction of minerals and natural resources.
The World Bank will develop a special financing package to accelerate these efforts.
13. Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy:
The lifting of sanctions will be discussed and agreed upon in stages and on a case-by-case basis.
The United States will enter into a long-term economic cooperation agreement for mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centers, rare earth metal extraction projects in the Arctic, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities.
Russia will be invited to rejoin the G8.
14. Frozen funds will be used as follows:
$100 billion in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine;
The US will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will add $100 billion to increase the amount of investment available for Ukraine's reconstruction. Frozen European funds will be unfrozen. The remainder of the frozen Russian funds will be invested in a separate US-Russian investment vehicle that will implement joint projects in specific areas. This fund will be aimed at strengthening relations and increasing common interests to create a strong incentive not to return to conflict.
15. A joint American-Russian working group on security issues will be established to promote and ensure compliance with all provisions of this agreement.
16. Russia will enshrine in law its policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine.
17. The United States and Russia will agree to extend the validity of treaties on the non-proliferation and control of nuclear weapons, including the START I Treaty.
Note: New START, the last major U.S.-Russia arms control treaty, is due to expire in February.
18. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.
19. The Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant will be launched under the supervision of the IAEA, and the electricity produced will be distributed equally between Russia and Ukraine — 50:50.
20. Both countries undertake to implement educational programs in schools and society aimed at promoting understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice:
Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and the protection of linguistic minorities.
Both countries will agree to abolish all discriminatory measures and guarantee the rights of Ukrainian and Russian media and education. (Note: Similar ideas were incorporated into Trump's 2020 Israel-Palestine peace plan).
All Nazi ideology and activities must be rejected and prohibited.
21. Territories:
Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk will be recognized as de facto Russian, including by the United States.
Kherson and Zaporizhzhia will be frozen along the line of contact, which will mean de facto recognition along the line of contact.
Russia will relinquish other agreed territories it controls outside the five regions.
Ukrainian forces will withdraw from the part of Donetsk Oblast that they currently control, and this withdrawal zone will be considered a neutral demilitarized buffer zone, internationally recognized as territory belonging to the Russian Federation. Russian forces will not enter this demilitarized zone.
22. After agreeing on future territorial arrangements, both the Russian Federation and Ukraine undertake not to change these arrangements by force. Any security guarantees will not apply in the event of a breach of this commitment.
23. Russia will not prevent Ukraine from using the Dnieper River for commercial activities, and agreements will be reached on the free transport of grain across the Black Sea.
24. A humanitarian committee will be established to resolve outstanding issues:
All remaining prisoners and bodies will be exchanged on an 'all for all' basis.
All civilian detainees and hostages will be returned, including children.
A family reunification program will be implemented.
Measures will be taken to alleviate the suffering of the victims of the conflict.
25. Ukraine will hold elections in 100 days.
26. All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to make any claims or consider any complaints in the future.
27. This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored and guaranteed by the Peace Council, headed by President Donald J. Trump. Sanctions will be imposed for violations.
Note: This is the same general structure Trump proposed to govern the Gaza peace agreement.
28. Once all parties agree to this memorandum, the ceasefire will take effect immediately after both sides retreat to agreed points to begin implementation of the agreement."
https://www.axios.com/2025/11/20/trump- ... nts-russia
"Worth noting: The 28 points below reflect the current U.S. plan as of Thursday, barring minor changes to the language as it has been amended. It includes annotations from Axios in italics for the purposes of clarity.
The full plan
1. Ukraine's sovereignty will be confirmed.
2. A comprehensive non-aggression agreement will be concluded between Russia, Ukraine and Europe. All ambiguities of the last 30 years will be considered settled.
3. It is expected that Russia will not invade neighboring countries and NATO will not expand further.
4. A dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the United States, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation in order to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development.
5. Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees.
A U.S. official told Axios this would be an explicit security guarantee for Ukraine from the U.S., the first time that has officially been on the table during these talks, though the proposal does not offer further details on what it entails.
6. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 personnel.
Note: Ukraine's army currently includes 800,000-850,000 personnel, and included around 250,000 prior to the war, according to a Ukrainian official.
7. Ukraine agrees to enshrine in its constitution that it will not join NATO, and NATO agrees to include in its statutes a provision that Ukraine will not be admitted in the future.
8. NATO agrees not to station troops in Ukraine.
Note: NATO countries including France and the U.K. have been working on separate proposals that would include small numbers of European troops on Ukrainian soil after the war. This plan appears to disregard that possibility.
9. European fighter jets will be stationed in Poland.
10. The U.S. guarantee:
The U.S. will receive compensation for the guarantee;
If Ukraine invades Russia, it will lose the guarantee;
If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a decisive coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be reinstated, recognition of the new territory and all other benefits of this deal will be revoked;
If Ukraine launches a missile at Moscow or St. Petersburg without cause, the security guarantee will be deemed invalid.
11. Ukraine is eligible for EU membership and will receive short-term preferential access to the European market while this issue is being considered.
12. A powerful global package of measures to rebuild Ukraine, including but not limited to:
The creation of a Ukraine Development Fund to invest in fast-growing industries, including technology, data centers, and artificial intelligence.
The United States will cooperate with Ukraine to jointly rebuild, develop, modernize, and operate Ukraine's gas infrastructure, including pipelines and storage facilities.
Joint efforts to rehabilitate war-affected areas for the restoration, reconstruction and modernization of cities and residential areas.
Infrastructure development.
Extraction of minerals and natural resources.
The World Bank will develop a special financing package to accelerate these efforts.
13. Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy:
The lifting of sanctions will be discussed and agreed upon in stages and on a case-by-case basis.
The United States will enter into a long-term economic cooperation agreement for mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centers, rare earth metal extraction projects in the Arctic, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities.
Russia will be invited to rejoin the G8.
14. Frozen funds will be used as follows:
$100 billion in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine;
The US will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will add $100 billion to increase the amount of investment available for Ukraine's reconstruction. Frozen European funds will be unfrozen. The remainder of the frozen Russian funds will be invested in a separate US-Russian investment vehicle that will implement joint projects in specific areas. This fund will be aimed at strengthening relations and increasing common interests to create a strong incentive not to return to conflict.
15. A joint American-Russian working group on security issues will be established to promote and ensure compliance with all provisions of this agreement.
16. Russia will enshrine in law its policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine.
17. The United States and Russia will agree to extend the validity of treaties on the non-proliferation and control of nuclear weapons, including the START I Treaty.
Note: New START, the last major U.S.-Russia arms control treaty, is due to expire in February.
18. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.
19. The Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant will be launched under the supervision of the IAEA, and the electricity produced will be distributed equally between Russia and Ukraine — 50:50.
20. Both countries undertake to implement educational programs in schools and society aimed at promoting understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice:
Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and the protection of linguistic minorities.
Both countries will agree to abolish all discriminatory measures and guarantee the rights of Ukrainian and Russian media and education. (Note: Similar ideas were incorporated into Trump's 2020 Israel-Palestine peace plan).
All Nazi ideology and activities must be rejected and prohibited.
21. Territories:
Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk will be recognized as de facto Russian, including by the United States.
Kherson and Zaporizhzhia will be frozen along the line of contact, which will mean de facto recognition along the line of contact.
Russia will relinquish other agreed territories it controls outside the five regions.
Ukrainian forces will withdraw from the part of Donetsk Oblast that they currently control, and this withdrawal zone will be considered a neutral demilitarized buffer zone, internationally recognized as territory belonging to the Russian Federation. Russian forces will not enter this demilitarized zone.
22. After agreeing on future territorial arrangements, both the Russian Federation and Ukraine undertake not to change these arrangements by force. Any security guarantees will not apply in the event of a breach of this commitment.
23. Russia will not prevent Ukraine from using the Dnieper River for commercial activities, and agreements will be reached on the free transport of grain across the Black Sea.
24. A humanitarian committee will be established to resolve outstanding issues:
All remaining prisoners and bodies will be exchanged on an 'all for all' basis.
All civilian detainees and hostages will be returned, including children.
A family reunification program will be implemented.
Measures will be taken to alleviate the suffering of the victims of the conflict.
25. Ukraine will hold elections in 100 days.
26. All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to make any claims or consider any complaints in the future.
27. This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored and guaranteed by the Peace Council, headed by President Donald J. Trump. Sanctions will be imposed for violations.
Note: This is the same general structure Trump proposed to govern the Gaza peace agreement.
28. Once all parties agree to this memorandum, the ceasefire will take effect immediately after both sides retreat to agreed points to begin implementation of the agreement."
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tacnet
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As many suspected, this is quite simply a Russian peace plan delivered by Trump !!
In this plan (as with the previous one), Russia concedes absolutely NOTHING. Ukraine meanwhile is forced to give up the Donbas, Crimea and other territory (which the Russian's do NOT control) for which 1000s of Ukranians have died to protect. Accepting that part alone would be political suicide
Then there's the limiting Ukrainian forces to 600k and with NO security forces allowed to be posted in Ukraine in return for some vague security promise from the USA. This is a country that has been brutally attacked over the last 4 years and now your expecting them to limit their military forces ???? And let's not forget, Ukraine already gave up its nuclear arms in return for a security pledge from the USA. Fat lot of good that did
It also makes no mention of the hybrid war that Russia is currently engaged in. The UK alone has seen over 90,000 cyber attacks against our security system so far this year
This is just like the last time where Trump and Putin agree totally one-sided "peace plan" with absolutely NO input from Ukraine or Europe. I suspect that world leaders will praise Trump (because they know how easily offended he gets) and say this is a good "first step" but in reality they will NOT accept this plan. Then, of course, Trump can point at Ukraine as being the one who doesn't want peace. Just as Putin intended with this plan
In this plan (as with the previous one), Russia concedes absolutely NOTHING. Ukraine meanwhile is forced to give up the Donbas, Crimea and other territory (which the Russian's do NOT control) for which 1000s of Ukranians have died to protect. Accepting that part alone would be political suicide
Then there's the limiting Ukrainian forces to 600k and with NO security forces allowed to be posted in Ukraine in return for some vague security promise from the USA. This is a country that has been brutally attacked over the last 4 years and now your expecting them to limit their military forces ???? And let's not forget, Ukraine already gave up its nuclear arms in return for a security pledge from the USA. Fat lot of good that did
It also makes no mention of the hybrid war that Russia is currently engaged in. The UK alone has seen over 90,000 cyber attacks against our security system so far this year
This is just like the last time where Trump and Putin agree totally one-sided "peace plan" with absolutely NO input from Ukraine or Europe. I suspect that world leaders will praise Trump (because they know how easily offended he gets) and say this is a good "first step" but in reality they will NOT accept this plan. Then, of course, Trump can point at Ukraine as being the one who doesn't want peace. Just as Putin intended with this plan
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If bully stops you and demanding some cash. And you give him your cash. Tomorrow he will stop you again.
Real peace possible when bully knows that messing with you is dangerous. You may not win but he definitely be bitten.
As Ukrainian I want peace badly. No drones, no ballistic missiles, open borders. I would love to make a peace deal.
But unfortunately this kind of deal won't bring peace. It's indulgence to be a bully.
It's like, when you were robbed and police came. And police is saying to you: we accept your belongings as robber property now, and additionally you must not hold a weapon with you in case they will want to rob you again.
Real peace possible when bully knows that messing with you is dangerous. You may not win but he definitely be bitten.
As Ukrainian I want peace badly. No drones, no ballistic missiles, open borders. I would love to make a peace deal.
But unfortunately this kind of deal won't bring peace. It's indulgence to be a bully.
It's like, when you were robbed and police came. And police is saying to you: we accept your belongings as robber property now, and additionally you must not hold a weapon with you in case they will want to rob you again.
Trailers/Teasers/Prerolls | Photo/Video Editing | GIF/Video Banners
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info@xxxtrailers.biz Skype: xxxtrailers
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TheButcher
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After the initial excitement that there might be a chance for peace I read those 28 points again and a couple more times. I don't see Ukraine or Russia accepting them in their totality. It's a good attempt and I hope they do so the killing stops but I seriously doubt it.
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tacnet
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I thought Russia had already accepted it ?? Wasn't there secret negotiations between USA and Russia to come up with this plan ??TheButcher wrote: ↑November 21st, 2025, 10:38 amAfter the initial excitement that there might be a chance for peace I read those 28 points again and a couple more times. I don't see Ukraine or Russia accepting them in their totality. It's a good attempt and I hope they do so the killing stops but I seriously doubt it.
I could be wrong but that's how I understood it
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TheButcher
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That's what some news sites have reported but I have not seen any site report that Russia was party to this peace proposal or can imagine they would agree to it. I think this is going to end up being a waste of time and a great distraction from all the Epstein and Charlie Kirk asassination news.tacnet wrote: ↑November 21st, 2025, 11:49 amI thought Russia had already accepted it ?? Wasn't there secret negotiations between USA and Russia to come up with this plan ??TheButcher wrote: ↑November 21st, 2025, 10:38 amAfter the initial excitement that there might be a chance for peace I read those 28 points again and a couple more times. I don't see Ukraine or Russia accepting them in their totality. It's a good attempt and I hope they do so the killing stops but I seriously doubt it.
I could be wrong but that's how I understood it
First of all why would Russia agree to hand over their frozen assets aka cash to some third party as in America to invest and get half the profits. Secondly the 4 regions are now part of the Russian Federation according to their constitution, they can;t just agree to stopping at the current lines of contact. Third Zelensky must be stupid and given his mind to agree to elections in 100 days, he is so unpopular the new leader who gets elected might go after him for corruption or war crimes and throw him in prison. The only way he can agree to the end of this conflict and have elections is to disappear in the middle of the night before they go after him. Another point I still think Russia want Odessa back and will take it and turn Ukraine into a land locked country with no access to the Black Sea.
This thing is not going to pass with neither Russia not Ukraine, so it's a non-starter.
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tacnet
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Wow. I really don't know where your getting your information from but it sounds very much like Russian backed propagandaTheButcher wrote: ↑November 21st, 2025, 12:00 pmThird Zelensky must be stupid and given his mind to agree to elections in 100 days, he is so unpopular the new leader who gets elected might go after him for corruption or war crimes and throw him in prison. The only way he can agree to the end of this conflict and have elections is to disappear in the middle of the night before they go after him.tacnet wrote: ↑November 21st, 2025, 11:49 amI thought Russia had already accepted it ?? Wasn't there secret negotiations between USA and Russia to come up with this plan ??TheButcher wrote: ↑November 21st, 2025, 10:38 amAfter the initial excitement that there might be a chance for peace I read those 28 points again and a couple more times. I don't see Ukraine or Russia accepting them in their totality. It's a good attempt and I hope they do so the killing stops but I seriously doubt it.
I could be wrong but that's how I understood it
Gallup shows Zelensky's popularity at 67%. Down from the 84% just after the invasion but that's still two thirds of Ukranians support him https://news.gallup.com/poll/693293/cha ... rship.aspx
Compare that to Trumps approval rating of 38% (and even Fox News agrees with that number)
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TheButcher
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Nope I don't watch Russian news nor the fake MSM news media I watch people like.
https://www.youtube.com/@judgingfreedom
https://www.youtube.com/@JeffreySachs_Official
https://www.youtube.com/@RonPaulLibertyReport
https://www.youtube.com/@therealscottritter
https://www.youtube.com/@TheDuran
https://www.youtube.com/@TheNewAtlas
Check them out they are unbiased and report facts.
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Russ
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Zelensky has been told take the deal by Trump
" Trump gives Ukraine days to accept his plan to end war as Zelensky warns of ‘difficult moment in history’ "
Here is a line form that cnn article.
"Addressing the nation via video on Friday, Zelensky said the US plan for ending the war would mean his country losing its dignity or a key ally. "
https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/21/europe/u ... ensky-intl
" Trump gives Ukraine days to accept his plan to end war as Zelensky warns of ‘difficult moment in history’ "
Here is a line form that cnn article.
"Addressing the nation via video on Friday, Zelensky said the US plan for ending the war would mean his country losing its dignity or a key ally. "
https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/21/europe/u ... ensky-intl
[NEWS] Ukraine Can’t Win the War
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